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kappa7099

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Reply with quote  #1 

Hello All,

 

One day at a nephew's 8th birthday party, my brother-in-law, ASE mechanic with American muscle and a professional forklift dealer, says to me, "Let me switch your Super over to propane.  It's easy to do, the fuel is 30 cents cheaper than gas, and it burns cleaner."  "Hmm", I reply.

 

I repeat this to my friend the next day.  My buddy, a former air-cooled VW mechanic from Venezuela, says that propane burns much hotter than gas, and that is, what we VW people call "bad".

 

Some positives of propane: cheaper by 30 cents than gas, burns cleaner, and is an easy conversion for a VW.

 

Some negatives: It comes in 8 gallon exchangeable tanks (pretty small), the exchange is limited to U-hauls, Home Depots, etc (Hey pull over to Home Depot I need to fill up!), and it may burn hotter than gas.

 

So, what to do?  Opinions welcomed.

 

 

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NoH2O

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Reply with quote  #2 
Seems like a lot of work for little benefit. My friends and I do a lot of offroading and some have been into the propane thing for a while now. Carbs. don't float out on steep hills or even under water for that matter. Their mods were done to Toyotas and at quite a bit of time and effort. These aren't street legal machines though. Strictly trail. Scares the crap out of me personally, knowing there's a tank of explosive gas strapped right behind my back, but so far no problems. They definitely serve there purpose well on the trail. If you've got the time and effort to put into such a project then go for it. I'm a big fan of ingenuity. Depends on how often you plan to drive such a car. I'd like to see how it works out!

Steve

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Joshua

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Reply with quote  #3 

<Hank Hill>

If you have a few moments I can tell you all about the clean, lean burning efficiency of propane, which I can sell to you from Strickland Propane.

</Hank Hill>

 

 

 

 

Sorry but this was just too good to pass up.


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SnowBug

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Reply with quote  #4 

yah, the availablity of propane is a hard thing to come by. Not like you can purchase it at every gas station. The benefits are amazing for off-road applications.  I think its rated at 110 octane, don't quote me on that but its more than 91 pump gas.  Can't fill the tank up all the way only like 3/4 full, and the cost of LP in the states really don't make it worth while.  since your mpg is a little lower than regular gas.  I think there is a couple of guys on my jeep forum that run it in canada and europe cause its cheaper than gas.  heard you had to pay an another tax if your car is seeing the highway vs, buying it to heat your house.  hope that helps. 


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fatalifeaten

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Reply with quote  #5 
Propane's cheaper in AZ, significantly so in fact. it's also very common, pretty much every station has an LP filler now  in the Phx area. We also get tax breaks for converting because it's less polluting than gasoline, and we get to use the carpool lane even with just one person

Another downside tradeoff to propane is that you lose roughly 10% horsepower. as compared to a like volume of pump gas. I've not heard you get lower mileage out of it though, I was under the impression it was comparable to gas. It does burn hotter than gas, so you have to make sure your cooling is in tip top shape if you're going to run it in an air cooled car.

I wouldn't run it in my '66, but we have been talking about converting our new beetle.


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SnowBug

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Reply with quote  #6 

thats sweet they do that for you guys in az.  maybe in the near future the rest of the US will catch on.


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68autobug

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Reply with quote  #7 
 
Propane..  just called Gas in Australia
after LPG  Liquid Petroleom Gas..
 
Gasoline is called Petrol in Australia...
 
Propane fueled cars have been around in Australia for many many years.. since the 70s..
only usually in V8 engined cars
as said, because of the 10% loss in horsepower
then in 6 cylinder cars
but I have seen it fitted to 4 cylinder pickups
as the gas cylinder in the pick up tray.... lol
 
LPG Propane used to very cheap...
about 1/4 the price of Gasoline
but as more cars started to be converted over
the government has added tax on Propane..
Now its about 1/2 the price of gasoline
and you can buy New Ford cars V8 or 6 cylinders already fitted up for Propane... 
 
 The Majority of Taxis here in Australia all run on Propane..
 the exhaust emissions are just about Nil with Propane..
 
 I've never heard of a propane tank in a car exploding..
 
My Son has two Nissan Patrol 4WD vehicles both on Propane
one a turbo 6 cylinder Nissan
and the other fitted with a Ford v8 engine..
 
only problem is. there are no propane outlets in Our Town
the closest is 20 miles away..
 
there are also many vehicles , usually 6 cylinder cars and 4WDs that have a propane tank , plus also run on Gasoline-
 
- Dual fuel vehicles...
with these, You need to start the engine on Gasoline and turn the engine off running on Gasoline...
 
Lee
 
Put in My beetle.... never....
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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flash

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Reply with quote  #8 

 Can you say...KABOOOOOOM!


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jmlloar

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Reply with quote  #9 

If you ever tear a propane ran engine apart the top end always looks as if its never been ran. The biggest down side next to loss of power is your driving along and sputter your out. There is no acruate way to measure fuel because its liquid that turns to gas you keep an eye on pressure but it doesnt drop till your just about empty and the only float type guages I've seen are the old get out and look type that are on the tank or the temp sesative ones that again require you to get out and look. And yes very little exhaust emissions. 

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ELON1974

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Reply with quote  #10 
Personal opinion: not in my lloyd. A dual fuel vehicle would work in my mind, though. Keeping that "Kaboom" fuel safe, of course, is the name of the game. But, we are in a place where everyone needs to accustom themselves to different types of fuels. If you go for it, tell us everything that goes right and wrong. I am interested to hear what you decide.
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kmrs75

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Reply with quote  #11 
if you don't mind me butting in since I'm new to the beetle thing and so far its been interesting. I'm working on an alternate fuel as well electric motor and batteries.

ok the cost for the fuel. here gas prices are right at four dollars a gallon 8 gallons = $32

8 gallons of propane 30 cense cheaper per gallon 29.60 (from what was posted 10% loss in power) if I'm thinking right you would put 10% right back so 2.96 so your cost is $32.56 for 8 gallons ----- is that right? its late

safety - well working in a petrochemical plant I have seen and heard many fires and the aftermath both gasoline and natural gas - my first thought is you hear cars catching on fire I cant recall ever hearing a fork truck catching on fire or blowing up. remember you have gasoline tank right in front of you while your driving and the tank is a thinner steel or plastic and rubber hoses coming out of it. if ya think hard it really don't sound to safe. 
 
 while a propane take is much more durable and made for safety with the max flow valve only allowing so much gas to flow out and if it exceeds that then it shuts off. the handles are a safety ring for the valve not to break off.
 
only a suggestion if you do it you could pipe in 20Lbs tanks and I bet you could fit 2 or 3 in the trunk. that way you can stop and any gas station and exchange them out

and for measuring the fuel left would be a digital scale. the weight would tell you how much is left in the tanks

go for it --

some people have called me crazy for thinking of doing the electric motor but who cares LOL good luck
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68autobug

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Reply with quote  #12 
 
Yes,
I have a propane tank in My shed , belongs to one of my Sons..  they are made from very thick steel and has all the safety things on it...
the tanks are usually fitted over the rear axle in Front engined cars... sometimes in the trunk or under the floor in FWD etc..
 
Most Gas F100s & 250s etc that get imported into Australia
all run on Propane...
most old V8s run on Propane...
 
I don't have any problems with Propane in a car..
 
but loss of horsepower and extra heat - Beetles don't need..
 
even though it costs about $60 to fill a beetle these days
with 95 octane Gas...
 
I've never seen a beetle running propane but I have heard of a type2 running a V8 engine running it...
 
cheers
 
LEE
 
PS: I don't know how We would handle the smell of propane if all vehicles ran it... lol
when cars first had unleaded gas and catalytic onverters they used to smell like rotten egg gas...
I don't know what they did to stop the smell..  gone now..
 


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74super

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Reply with quote  #13 
 I have considered the propane converson on my 74 super beetle i am trying to get going.. have read a deal on a guy that did this to his vw bus here is the link to read the if your interested he goes over the whole process of his converson very interesting    http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1972-05-01/Convert-Your-Car-To-Propane.aspx 

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olspeed

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Reply with quote  #14 
While I like the idea...makes the Bug a Green car. At least up here it's not the cheaper route. Gas is still $2.36 a Gal at it's lowest, but propane is right at $3.00 a Gal. Now we have company execs and legislators telling us that to build this pipeline through Canada to the lower 48 and also to Valdez to ship it to Japan and China we will have to pay more for our natural gas than what they will be charging these other customers. They say this is the only way to keep the profits up for the companies involved. This is the same excuse for our gas prices being what they are. What a bunch if BS.
Olspeed
P.S. I like Motherearthnews as this is where I got the plans for my waste oil heater for my toy box. It works great, as even though this was a cold winter we have only gone through around 250 gallons of heating oil between the house and the garage.

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68autobug

VW Guru
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Reply with quote  #15 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 74super
 I have considered the propane converson on my 74 super beetle i am trying to get going.. have read a deal on a guy that did this to his vw bus here is the link to read the if your interested he goes over the whole process of his converson very interesting    http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1972-05-01/Convert-Your-Car-To-Propane.aspx 

I wouldn't recommend propane gas for a beetle...
You would need extra oil coolers to help keep the engine cool...
Propane tanks are all Round... with rounded ends...
like boilers... so they can handle the pressure etc...
I've never heard of one exploding in Australia...
or a car being burnt because of it...
but Propane cars have to be tested every year by a Gas Technician..
Propane is still very cheap in Australia...
 
the government gives out rebates for the conversion..
but I'm sure if too many people went over to propane
an auto tax would soon bump the price up...
 
Propane burns cleaner - no carbon left in the engine like Petrol/Gas..
 
but- the EXTRA Heat would stop Me...
PLUS the lower horsepower.....
 
LEE
 

 

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