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edlutzenberg

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have a friend with a Thing with 1600 dual port that has 009 dist and 34 pict 3 carb. Car has hesitation and just dosent run right. I understand there is a common problem running these two components together, can anyone enlighten me as to the problem and or the fix? Thanks-Ed
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Ditchman

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Reply with quote  #2 
The 009 distributor will have a slight hesitation when you first take off but will work with the 34 pic 3 carb. My guess is that the points are not gaped properly, the carb is not set up right, the spark plugs are not gaped to spec, timing could be out, it could be one or all of the above. I would try setting the points & check the timing before he goes any further. A very good site to check out is Rob and Dave's Aircooled Volkswagen Pages  (http://www.vw-resource.com)

I hope this helps

Ron

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olspeed

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Reply with quote  #3 
One of the things people do to get rid of the off idle bog is to give the acclerator pump a little bump/boost. Just set the acclerator pump to pump in a little more fuel when you step on it and it should get at least ease if not get rid of the problem.
Olspeed 

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fatalifeaten

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Reply with quote  #4 
As olspeed mentioned, you can tune this a bit, but you will never get all the hesitation out running this combination. You can also solder shut the air bypass in the butterfly, but this is not for the faint-at-heart. The permanent fix is to run an Vacuum advance distributor with this carb. Having said that, if you tune the accel pump as mentioned and are willing to live with that little slug at the bottom end, this combination works very well for stock and small displacement engines. I ran it for years and had managed to tune most of the hesitation out. I eventually switched to dual 40mm Karorns and got rid of my 34-3.

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dizi

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Reply with quote  #5 

hmm ive seen these post about hesitation with this setup but personally i really dont get it. i have the same thing just with a points eliminator and i have everything adjusted and to stock setup and feel no problems. the only thing i ever really notice is in a sense a lack of power


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68autobug

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hi Guys
Well My 68 beetle with a 1600 single port engine and a brazillian weber single throat carby [looks similar to a solex,] and autostick transmission worked OK and I didn't have any hesitation..  but after 5 years a bought a new SVDA bosch dual distributor with vacuum and mechanical advance...

and it is amazing the difference the SVDA distributor makes...
I am still running points at the moment , but have petronix kit to install soon..

Now.. I am very pleased how My beetle goes...

 These distributors are available now very cheap, but many are chinese made and some are Ok and others are rubbish.. One of the VW parts shops in Australia have a Large box of SVDA chinese  distributors that they cannot sell...

I bought mine from aircooled.net in the USA... the dissies are tuned to whatever carby You are using...    all are tested...

Tuning a beetle engine .... points etc need to be spot on...
all the time... condensors on distributors need to be renewed every couple of years or so.. they don't last forever.. same with dist cap and rotor..  and spark plugs and leads..  also check the gap on New spark plugs..

Maybe My brasillan weber carby worked better than a solex 34 pict 3.????

Lee in Australia

Attached Images
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ChrisW

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Reply with quote  #7 
Yup you can tune most of hesitation out. Yup some people seem to run this combo with no trouble. But the 34pict3 was designed to work with with a svda dizzy and it runs best with a svda. So you have to decide if it is worth the 150 or so dollars to get this car to run as smooth as it should.

I run the aircooled  svda dizzy with dual weber 34icts and I would not go back to a 009 for anything but an emergency. 


Chris 

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olspeed

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Reply with quote  #8 
Sorry but I for one don't agree. I have run my German 009 with my old Allison ignition system now since 85(first in my 1835 and now in my 1904) I have run it with my dual webers and with the stock 34pict3 carb and as I said after bumping the acclerator pump a little it has performed flawlesly... well at least as smooth as a svda dizzy. Also the 009 will provide at least a half to one HP more over the low to mid RPM range than the stock dizzy(Hot VWs All about performance engines page110) This is where a VW is driven not at WOT where they perform the same.
Olspeed


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68autobug

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hi
well I thought My German 009 was OK...  but the Bosch SVDA  from aircooled is checked on a machine to make sure its Ok and they will tune it to Your carburetor.../s..

I paid $300US for Mine in late 2009 including very expensive air freight.. seeing there isn't any freight going by ship these days..

I suspect that My Autostick also worked well with the 009 as it doesn't have a heavy flywheel but a flexplate...
so, the engine didn't have to wait for the flywheel to spin when accelerating, [and waiting for the fuel to work instead of the vacuum adjusting the advance] so it seemed Ok but used a lot of Gas.. and You did need to press hard on the accelerator to start off at the traffic lights....


but then again, the 009 was designed for Big fast engines...
and twin carburetors...     lol

cheers

LEE






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ChrisW

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Reply with quote  #10 
Like I said some people run that combo with no trouble. You just proved me right. I also said that the 34pcit3 was not designed to run with a 009, and it was not. Your car may run like a top with this combo, I must take your word for that. My super ran far better with the svda and got better gas mileage. If I lost a hp or two I did not feel it. I know that the 009 is an icon in the vw world but I have never been impressed. 


Chris

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olspeed

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Reply with quote  #11 
Actually the original Bosch 009 was a design for industrial engines... ones that run a heavy flywheel and need to come up to and stay at a steady RPM quickly. This last part was what drew ACVW hotrodders to the 009 back in the late 60's through the 90's...and even today. But as you state Lee your Bosch SVDA from Aircooled is checked on a machine, unfortunately the cheap Chinese copies(and most of the Brazillian ones) of the original Bosch 009 that they sell today would no doubt fail even this test. But the old original  GERMAN 009 even today is a tough one to beat. I have four saved up in my stock pile and of those four two were re bushed and had the shafts honed and polished at the machine shop that I worked at, I would be willing to run any of these dizzy's on a machine to see if they are on spec and would be willing to bet money that they are. The SVDA does make it where you don't have to adjust the stock carb(34 pict3) to remove the flat spot, some remove the hole in the throttle plate(solder it or pop rivet it) and some like me adjust the accelerator lever to supply a little larger amount of gas when the throttle is depressed. As for the fuel mileage I would guess that in city stop and go driving the mileage might  suffer a small amount but that is still going to depend A LOT on your driving habits no matter what Distributor you run, but on the highway where most of my driving takes place that is where the 009 was designed to shine... As I said "ones that run a heavy flywheel and need to come up to and stay at a steady RPM quickly" My Ghia still gets 34 MPG on my runs in to the "Big City" and that's at 65mph with a one way distance of 74 miles to the turn off to Muldoon road(first entrance to Anchorage) And for smooth, my wife's 2009 Hyundai (the car that she's always comparing mine to)hasn't got nothing on my VW... not bad for a 45 year old car.
Olspeed
P.S. when your stock engine is only putting out 48 BHP @4000 rpm even a boost of 1/2 to 1 HP is a difference, just think that hotrod cool looking header that most run only adds 3 HP on a stock engine.
(Hot VWs All about performance engines page 114) 

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68autobug

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW
Like I said some people run that combo with no trouble. You just proved me right. I also said that the 34pcit3 was not designed to run with a 009, and it was not. Your car may run like a top with this combo, I must take your word for that. My super ran far better with the svda and got better gas mileage. If I lost a hp or two I did not feel it. I know that the 009 is an icon in the vw world but I have never been impressed. 


Chris


Hi Chris

Yes the 009 is still regarded by most of the VW owners in Australia as "the" distributor to have....

as they haven't read all the GOOD things about the SVDA....

Lee


PS:  with Gas over a $1-55 a liter in Australia for 98 RON..
         $1-48 for 91 RON with ethanol...



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ChrisW

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Reply with quote  #13 
Ah now I understand you point. So this 181 owner should throw away his most likely cheap copy of a 009 and search the Samba for a 1960s Bosh 009 then rebuild it or pay someone to rebuild it then pair it with a carb that is renowned for not working well with it and to compensate for its built in flaw (in this application) rig it to dump extra gas down the manifold to avoid the tiresome task of ordering a svda from Aircooled.com dropping it in timing his engine. Got it.

As for your mileage, my guess is if you were running a svda in your Ghia you would be getting 38 mpg. I checked my mileage with my Bosh 009 and with my svda and I got an extra 4 mpg highway. I have never checked my in town.


Chris 

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68autobug

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Reply with quote  #14 
Yes,
there are boatloads of chinese copies of the 009 which cannot even be tuned as they move around too much...

make sure its a Bosch...

the chinese copies usually have no names on them....

there are cheaper versions of the SVDA.. Hot.Spark in the USA have a good website...  and sell non bosch svda dissies..

cheers

LEE

PS: 009s should be timed at maximum advance [engine revving] at 28 to 32 degrees advance...
SVDAs can go to 42 degrees advance using mechanical and vacuum advance...  LEE


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olspeed

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Reply with quote  #15 
Ahh now I see where you are coming from... Take a problem that you have limited information on
Quote:
  I have a friend with a Thing with 1600 dual port that has 009 dist and 34 pict 3 carb. Car has hesitation and just dosent run right. I understand there is a common problem running these two components together, can anyone enlighten me as to the problem and or the fix? Thanks-Ed
    

and "Throw money at it" as that fixes everything right.
 For all you or I know the car just might be equipped with a German or early Brazilian 009 and neither one of us knows just what this person has done to try to correct his problems. Most people don't even know how to correctly tune a Pict34-3 carb in the first place (unless they read the Idiot book right) just like most current owners don't even have the correct Bentley manual for their car.But thats OK lets just throw anywhere from $150.00 to $300.00 at it because once you install it, it will run perfectly and the sun will shine and the flowers will Bloom and everything will be right with the world.
 People have been happily running a 009 since the 60's and yes there are those that have had problems with them and swear by the svda, but one has to wonder why did so many people switch from the stock dizzy provided with the engine and matched to the Pict34-3 by VW to the 009 and the only complaint most had was the off idle bog.
 VW has always been a hands on car, manual adjustment for the brakes, cable throttle and clutch, valves that need adjusting at set intervals and a stock engine with a screen strainer instead of an oil filter. This is not to say that advancements in these areas were not available to VW during the time that they were building these cars. And of course it is the 21 century and "with money" any of this can be changed, heck they even have bolt on kits that can turn your bug into a vehicle that can compete with the latest sports cars and drive like a luxury sedan... if you have money.
 Sir I am NOT a "parts changer" I am a mechanic and have been one for over 30 years I have always believed in finding out if it is fixable first... then if not purchase the best item available for the job...At the time the 009 WAS the best product out there. As I said the ones that are for sale now are Chinese junk(that does not mean that this person has one) But to say "it has an 009 their junk just change it" without investigating further is just something a "parts changer" would say.
Olspeed 

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66 Ghia, "Dexter" 76 flat window Beetle
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